I may share my testimony at some point but let's just say that I have been privy to many cases of sexual abuse of several kinds, on both the victim and the perpetrator side of the equation. I've studied and researched sexual abuse and the laws thereof. Laws are supposed to be created, in this area, to try to protect victims. I would like to propose a scenario/topic for discussion.

Legal issues set aside, let me present two hypothetical situations:

1. A 14 year old female engages in admitted consensual sex with a 17 year old male.

2. A 14 year old female engages in admitted consensual sex with a 35 year old male.

Would you think there would be a difference in the trauma that the female would experience in these 2 situations? Why or why not?

There are many factors at play here. A 17 yr old is very close in age to a 14 year old. A 35 year old has a lot of years worth experience. Years of learning how to manipulate people better. Years of broken thought processes in his own mind. Years of being able to persuade a 14 year old into thinking that sex with someone old enough to be her father is ok. A 14 year old girl in most cases would not know better. At 14 and 17 bodies and minds are not yet fully developed, thus a blurring of the levels of culpability. Levels of trauma can be vastly different depending on who the person is and their level of development. I actually have a problem with how the scenarios are worded. The phrase "admitted consensual sex" and the word "trauma" in the same sentence or thought, is an oxymoron. You're going to have to word things differently or elaborate on the situation to get a clearer discussion.

First of all, look at this strictly from the female side.

Scenario 1: She is a freshman and believes she is in love with the 17 year old senior and wants to show him her love for him.

Scenario 2: She is a freshman and has a crush on her 35 year old Math teacher and believes she is in love with him and wants to show him her love for him.

Ok then. A little more clear. I won't get into the problems I have with the scenarios. I'll also try leave out my opinions on morality issues. I'll stick to the "trauma" involved. Like I said, trauma and consensual, do not really mix. That's a very blurred line. The 14 year old is not fully able to comprehend her decisions. This is fact. So is she truly consenting? No.
I'll go with what you've given me.

Scenario 1:
Way more likely to happen everyday in every high school. Long lasting issues will be much easier to deal with. Not easy, just easier. A 17 year old boy is not looked upon as a leader or father figure or person of authority. These things will make it much more difficult to get through in the future.

Scenario 2:
Again, biting my tongue on this one. A 35 year old MAN, like it or not, in a school or any professional setting is automatically thought of as a leader, teacher, trusted authority figure. Later in life, the girl involved will most surely have problems with authoritative figures such as bosses, managers etc. It may also hurt relationship progression.

Okay, you are still viewing this from the 35 year old's responsibility. That's not what I'm after. Let me be clear. I am a Christ follower and believe God's order is the only one that matters. Any sex outside of marriage is a sin. In HIS eyes, there is not difference in the sin of the 17 year old or the 35 year old.

What I'm looking at is this; we have laws of punishment in place for responsibility of the adults, that are taking advantage of the underaged, because studies show that most of the time there is some type of everlasting trauma involved that the victim suffers.

Before I go on, let me say that I believe, from the testimonies and support groups I've been privy to, that Christ can deliver anyone who is willing to surrender to Him, on either side of the equation (victim or perp). The perp does not have to carry that compulsive sinful behavior around with him or her, the rest of their lives, and that the victim does not have to carry around any trauma/devestation the rest of their lives as well.

It is not uncommon for high school girls to have crushes and relationships with older men, be it teachers or not. I agree and understand the responsibility of the adult, hence your 'tongue biting'. Setting that aside and seeing this through the female's eyes in the scenario I propose, she believes she is just as in love with the 17 year old as she is the 35 year old. Both relationships are wrong and 'could' end up having a lasting affect on the female. I will agree, for the sake of argument that the female is too young to make those choices, so shouldn't the responsibility/consequence be on the males in both scenarios? I think we have a tendency to just focus on the 35 year old side. Maybe it's time to tear down the 'double standard' walls of this, just like we are gradually tearing down the 'double standard' of the adult female and the underaged male.

First off, if you wanted a pre-determined answer that catered to your religious beliefs, why didn't you say so? What is the point of asking someone's input, if you already have your answers? Arguing religion with someone is a futile exercise. You've unwittingly insulted me and whoever read your original post by disguising that. Secondly, you asked about trauma, I answered from experience and knowledge. Jesus may forgive the abuser and save him, which is along the lines of what I believe as well. You must be careful with "perps" though. Some of them will say anything to get back in someone's favor. The "perp" should never be trusted again in certain settings. It is that black and white!! I would rather protect the 14 year old girl, than go on the "perps" word that he made his peace with God, only to find out later that he abused again. Spiritually, it's up to him and God and no one else's judgment. We simply cannot count solely on God to protect her. My Jesus wouldn't want that. We are to act on His behalf on Earth as it would be in Heaven. We must protect the innocent.

I most certainly was NOT seeing it from the 35 year olds point of view. You did not read correctly. A crush is a crush. That happens everyday in every school. Sex is not a crush!! And there is no "could" about it; Both relationships WILL have a lasting effect. The extent of the lasting effect has a lot of variables. I did not ever say that the responsibility was the 35 year olds only. You asked about specific traumatic effects. I gave you answers about specific traumatic effects.

Unfortunately, 17 year olds are protected by laws that the majority of people agree with or they wouldn't be law. I don't agree with it. I simply gave you a factual account of how a 35 year old should physically, psychologically and spiritually be more AWARE of what he has done.

I did not want a 'pre-determined' answer. Of course I have my opinions about things and simply wanted the opinions of others. You gave your opinion and I gave mine. You've insulted me by 'assuming' that I somehow 'disguised' something. As I said, I've done a lot of research on this subject and have seen and heard a lot of testimony as well.

Statistic on the Department of Justice website: The recidivism rate for registered sex offenders that have had any kind of 'treatment' is 3%. The only crime that is lower than that is murder and that is because most murders receive life in prison or the death penalty.

I never stated anything about God protecting the victim. I said that the victim does not have to carry that baggage around with her the rest of her life like so many believe. Powerful testimonies that collaborate that can be heard from the likes of Joyce Meyer and Beth Moore.

In closing, there is only ONE Jesus. He's not mine or yours, He's ours. We have a choice to accept Him or not and that choice dictates where we will spend eternity. I've made my choice and I'm not ashamed of it and will stand for it in any arena.

Statistics on a Government website represent VERY small real number.

I didn't assume anything . Go back and read your original post. You asked for trauma effects. I gave you trauma effects. It's not an opinion, it's fact. For some reason you had to throw God and religion in the discussion, 3 posts in!! It had nothing to do with the actual text that you first posted. So was it purposefully disguised? Maybe not. But it sure turned out a lot different didn't it? You know deep down that if you had titled the thread "What would Jesus do?" Not one person would have responded.

On that subject, I knew you'd jump all over the "my Jesus" comment. That was a test. Yes there is only one Jesus. Do you think you know more about Him than I do? Everyone has their own thoughts and opinions. I tend to form my own thoughts and opinions on Him. If you like to form your thoughts based on what someone like Joyce Meyer thinks, be my guest. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just don't suggest to me that I'm wrong in what I think. I know I know, you'll say that you didn't suggest anything.

Back to the original scenario that had nothing to do with religion, I answered.

It isn't a 'What would Jesus do", it is about what CAN Jesus do if we let Him.

So, exactly what was your test about your "Jesus" comment? Did I say I knew more about Him than you do? Did I even insinuate that? You are reading those things into it. I stated that He is the One and Only and not just yours or mine but everyone's. Like you said about your trauma expertise, it's not an opinion it's FACT!

You missed the boat with Joyce Meyer. I do not form thoughts or opinions on what she said, I believe her testimony, and the many, many other women who have testified that Christ has transformed their lives to the point that they no longer have to carry that 'trauma, baggage, and victim mentality' around, because of the deliverance and freedom Christ has provided in their lives. I too have experienced that transformation from a different perspective. I'll 'borrow' your quote again, "It's not opinion, it's fact!"

My original post was to see if there was anyone out there who had the same opinion I had, and that is this; I see very little difference, on the 'victim' side of this, whether it is a 17 year old or a 35 year old, that the 'victim' believes she's in love with. I think laws should be written to read very similarly for both males in that scenario, if we are writing the laws based upon the victim trauma.

No, I didn't miss the boat with Joyce Meyer. I choose not to listen to her. I'm not a fan. I'm also not a woman. What exactly is your different perspective? Unless you've been where a sexually abused person has been, you can't have a clear opinion on the subject. Plain and simple. If you were sexually abused, my apologies.

Look, everyone has a different view on who Jesus was, and what He did/does for us. Therefore, technically there will always be a personal Jesus quotient. Yes there is only one, but not everyone has exactly the same thoughts and impressions on Him. That's all I was getting at. I knew you'd comment on it. And in doing so and trying to educate me on the one and only Jesus, you did imply that you knew more than I do on the subject. Argue all you want, it's all semantics now.

And lastly, God's law and societal laws are not connected anymore. I agree that both parties should be equally taken care of too, but that's not the way it is. You also can't write a law that pertains to different levels of trauma. That would be virtually impossible. Trauma can't be measured. Again, I simply stated that a 35 year SHOULD physiologically, psychologically and spiritually know better. It doesn't mean they do.

Also, again, having sex with someone does equal having a crush on someone. There is a very defined line. A 14 year old girl was misguided in her short life at some point to have that line blurred. We can only hope, that she finds strength and proper guidance from here on out.

You did miss the point I was making on Joyce Meyer. We can argue Bible doctrine until the cows come home, but we can't debate someone's testimony. We can choose not to believe it, but we can't debate and say that they are wrong.

God is not a God of confusion and the 'different views' are all man's confusion. There is only one truth. He did no intend to confuse us, let us make our own decisions about Him, or give us different ways to Him. I don't debate the Word of God, I was on the side of unbelief for 47 years, and the journey He's led me on since 2001 has been eye opening and life changing. I, just like Joyce, have experienced His power, healing, and presence. It goes way beyond 'believing' or 'implying' anything to anyone. It's like if someone asked me. "Do you believe you have a nose?" My answer would be, no I don't believe it, I know it. Do I believe Jesus is part of the Trinity and is not only the Son of God, but also God in the flesh? No, I don't believe it......I know it! Imply that however you want, but it has nothing to do with me being smarter than you or anyone else, it's what has been revealed to me, by Him in this ongoing journey that is, and will continue to be, a work in progress.

Most people aren't in a vulnerable position to receive Christ until they are at a 'rock bottom' or place of hopelessness in their lives. That's what happened to me. I thank God that happened to me and every day of my life these last 10 years, the pain, sorrow, joy, and peace. I have a peace now that He promises us in His Word that has absolutely nothing to do with our circumstances or environment. Happiness is something that can only be gotten and defined by what is going on around us. His peace and joy is eternal and 24/7 despite any valleys he allows to test us.

It's not an opinion, it's fact!!!

In closing my different perspective is from the side of the sin of pornography, which He has delivered me from through the tools and journey He has led me on.

NO, I will say again that I didn't miss any point about Joyce Meyer. I never said she was wrong. I just don't like her. That's my prerogative. I know all about "rock bottom places" I am a survivor of incest. My whole childhood and innocence was taken from me. My father was run over and killed 4 years ago right in front of my house. We've never found the person who did it. My older brother is a major drug addict and criminal. My niece is a drug addict teenage mother. I could go on and on. There is no darkness I don't know about. I also have my own spirituality. I know all about that too. I've had much more experience in that field also. It's a struggle. You can't add anything that I don't already know about.

Your perspective on this whole issue is the sin of pornography??? Are you serious??? Look, I'm glad you're in a happy place but if your going to try and quantify this whole thread by saying that your perspective is from the sin of pornography, that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. There is no point in taking discussion this any further. I don't know why I even bothered. One more time, if you go back and read your original post, I answered what you wanted me to. I really have no interest in your condescending born again diatribes. Good day.

What don't like about Joyce? You seem to be an expert in all areas. Maybe I can learn something from you and your expertise that I may be missing.

My father was run over and killed in a pedestrian accident in 1997. I have an aunt who committed suicide. I have an aunt an uncle who are devastated with Huntington's Disease. I have a brother who's been married 7 times and dying from diabetes. I have a a niece who is an unwed mother with 3 kids from 2 men. I'm also a convicted felon who spent 2 and a half years in federal prison because of my little sin of 'pornography', the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard. But then again, as you said, you have 'much more experience in that field'. My condescending born again diatribe is my testimony. You can call me condescending and believe the foolishness of this world that has gotten so far from God's order as you stated above. Interesting thing is, the Word, that was written thousands of years ago, prophesies that it will happen just the way it is! Imagine that! That's not my opinion, that's a fact!!!!! Jesus loves you and so do I!

HaHaHa. Oh you're funny. You like twisting my words. That's ok. You'll be forgiven. Never said it was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. That's shows you right there how words can be turned around and used the way you want them to be used. Never said I was an expert in all areas. But again, that's ok, you'll be forgiven. I'm hoping against anything here that your not in any way the 35 year old in your scenario. The "Word" you refer to that was written thousands of years ago, was written in another language and has been translated a hundred times before English. You can take anything you want to and make it whatever you want. This is why there have been wars in the name of religion for thousands of years. Misunderstandings of the "Word"
You ARE being condescending and now holier than thou!! God help you for that.
If you're a convicted felon because of porn, the only way that would happen is if it was child porn. If that's the case, you are a disgusting pig and I want nothing to do with you!! I'm serious, if you were convicted of child porn or you're one of the people in your scenarios, I don't even want you to answer. You are not a a victim of sexual abuse, and why you're trolling forums where you have no place being, is beyond me. Go away.

"The "Word" you refer to that was written thousands of years ago, was written in another language and has been translated a hundred times before English. You can take anything you want to and make it whatever you want."


Ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls?????


"You ARE being condescending and now holier than thou!!"

Just an opinion, not factual.

"If you're a convicted felon because of porn, the only way that would happen is if it was child porn. If that's the case, you are a disgusting pig and I want nothing to do with you!! I'm serious, if you were convicted of child porn or you're one of the people in your scenarios, I don't even want you to answer."


"You have heard that the law of Moses says, 'Love your neighbor', hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! Matt 4:43.44

I love you and will pray for you!

"I'm serious, if you were convicted of child porn or you're one of the people in your scenarios, I don't even want you to answer. You are not a a victim of sexual abuse, and why you're trolling forums where you have no place being, is beyond me."

To let the lost know that they don't have to carry that baggage around with them, victim or offender. Jesus can deliver anyone who is willing.

The world has no clue.

"So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world's brilliant debaters? God has made them all look foolish and has shown their wisdom to be useless nonsense. Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never find him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save all who believe. God's way seems foolish to the Jews because they want a sign from heaven to prove it is true. And it is foolish to the Greeks because they believe only what agrees with their own wisdom. ..... This foolish plan of God is far wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God's weakness is far stronger than the greatest of human strength." 1 Corinthians 1:20-22, 25

I couldn't have said it anymore condescending myself!

Yeah, the Dead Sea Scrolls are in English. You're slipping buddy.
Oh, you sick pervert. You're lack of denial hangs you. If you're a sex offender coming on a victim's internet board, you my creepy friend, are in deep trouble.

Please help me too

nataliemclean09@yahoo.com

JACK1953 - WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING ON THIS FORUM? IF YOU ARE A CONVICTED FELON BECAUSE OF CHILD PORN THEN YOU ARE SICK PERVERT AND YOU SHOULDNT BE ON THIS WEBSITE. OR MAYBE YOU SHOULD BE WRITING IN THE "PORNOGRAPHY AND SEXUAL FORUM". WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IS NOT ABUSE AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ABUSE. AND YOU NEED TO STOP PREECHING ABOUT JESUS. STOP TELLING PEOPLE YOU LOVE THEM AND THAT GOD WILL HELP THEM. WE ARE HERE BECAUSE OF OUR PASTS AND WE WANT ADVICE FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH SIMILIAR SITUATIONS NOT A PERVERT WHO IS ADDICTED TO CHILD PORN.

ive been in version of both of those situations
i had realtions with a older man when i was 12 13
and i also dated a 17yr old when i was 14
it all comes down to age and experince the older male should know better that a 14 yr old can not consent to sex as in her mind its not sex its love. its physically giveing your love to someone

not defending the 17 yr old either but he is just a young guy as well im 18 years old and many guys i knew in high school had younger girlfriends
they dont see anything wrong with it as we are all classified teenagers in each others eyes.
when we look at someone 13 and older we see our selves as nearly the same age we dont divide our selves up like adults do
when its a male over 18 we start to see the diffrence in the age group as in he is a adult and she is a teen.

both are bad in their own ways but personally as a teen and as haveing been there a 17 yr old boy has just as little clue about the diffrence between sex and showing love and affection as a 14 yr old girl

hope that help excuse the spelling have dysgraphia and spell checker broke